<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://wandering.shop/@xgranade" class="u-url mention">@<span>xgranade</span></a></span> okay, then we more or less agree on the substance if not the form. thank you for taking the time to write an explanation</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@whitequark" class="u-url mention">@<span>whitequark</span></a></span> But absent that structure, I absolutely recognize that people are doing experiments on actual humans, both to maximize the profits of unscrupulous corporations, and to learn how to better benefit other people — I encourage that that experimentation be done with all the empathetic concern and attention to ethical conduct that implies.</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@whitequark" class="u-url mention">@<span>whitequark</span></a></span> And like, if an IRB is just acting as a gatekeeper? That&#39;s not helping anyone do things ethically, and it&#39;s not helping any potential or actual users. It&#39;s concentrating power, and that&#39;s it.</p><p>I don&#39;t know what the right structure is for providing expertise to people trying to do their best while also telling corporations running completely unethical uncontrolled and nonconsentual experiments to fuck off.</p>

<p>*VCVTTPD2UQQs ur ZMMs*</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@whitequark" class="u-url mention">@<span>whitequark</span></a></span> To be sure, that&#39;s why I emphasized from the second toot that I wished there were more resources available — I understand that reading, and I definitely don&#39;t intend to encourage more unpaid labor.</p><p>It&#39;s absolutely fucked up that the companies that do A/B testing don&#39;t give a shit about the ethical consequences of such, and the people who *do* give a shit don&#39;t have the resources to back that care up with aid from specialized expertise in ethical experiment design.</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://wandering.shop/@xgranade" class="u-url mention">@<span>xgranade</span></a></span> mainly, I do think there&#39;s room to improve (like, kilometers of it) in how A/B testing is done, but the way it was presented more or less told me &quot;great, another thing I have to do to satisfy an external gatekeeper while doing primarily unpaid labor&quot; which doesn&#39;t spring enthusiasm for the underlying critique even if it maybe should</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@whitequark" class="u-url mention">@<span>whitequark</span></a></span> I mean, fair; I&#39;m not sure I agree (indeed, or else I wouldn&#39;t have said what I did), but I definitely take the critique.</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://wandering.shop/@xgranade" class="u-url mention">@<span>xgranade</span></a></span> I think you bring up at least some reasonable points but the way in which you frame them (or framed to me initially) seems about as non-constructive as it gets, to be honest</p>

<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@whitequark" class="u-url mention">@<span>whitequark</span></a></span> I do hope that&#39;s something that you don&#39;t find deranged, as you say; I value your opinion and expertise in general and on this stuff in particular. Whether you do find it deranged or not, though, that&#39;s more or less where I&#39;m coming from?</p><p>I think tech as an industry (and yes, that includes my own time in such) has normalized a degree of nonconsentual experimentation that&#39;s now causing huge problems.</p>